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Base claims and a suggestion of how to do it

Some ideas for making a claim


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DZS

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Right so there's been talk in discord of base claims lately its finally been elevated to a consideration by the team. Its been an ongoing issue for sometime - you start setting up a base stashing your stuff boarding it up stashing food, only to find a couple of zombies suddenly spawn behind you. If your not quick your dead and everything goes to waste.

Partly the purpose of this thread is to bring it to awareness to the greater community and encourage some discussion on how to best go about a claims system. Im certain its going to happen with the team now actively discussing it.

What i'd love to see in game is a claims system that also ties into a clan system for the purpose of creating community's, everything starts small.

My suggestion of how to create a claim is simple, the sleeping bag. Im pretty sure thats how it works in 7days to die. Drop sleeping bag, that building is now claimed by 'player bob'. Ofc unless the building is secured other players can get in there inc zombies, if the sleeping bag gets destroyed it'd be the equivalent of the core block being destroyed in Empyrion. Hopefully any claims system is implemented in such a way that it locks down certain aspects of the building unless a player is prepared to bust in and potentially break locks and boards. So its not like if a player accidentally leaves their door unlocked and another player wanders in they can start accessing equipment for use and randomly go through another players stash. If the sleeping bag was to be destroyed in such an event another player could then access the players equipment and swipe anything they can get access too. One way to do it. Another idea is anchoring the player account to a bed, but that could have the potential for exploits since beds are non destructible props at this stage.
 

Dr. J

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I've voted for the trophy option, perhaps something simple that could be crafted from firewood and a few tools.
I also agree it is a bit annoying to log off for the night, and then log back on to find zombies have spawned in to your small structure you're calling home, even if you've put some fortification in place.

Loot is loot, and any player should be able to try and get anything you have if they find your stash. Obviously, you can use the in game items to make this harder for them, or do as I do, and let everyone know where you are, and tell them to come and help themselves (just leave the can opener!).

I think it was @Dark_Eno that commented about the number of zombies found in buildings during the day, I think the spawn rate is currently a little too high for players starting or restarting the game. I'd like to see zombies not spawning in in areas players have logged off in, or at least within a certain radius.
 

jedi_warrior

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@DZS "(...) locks down certain aspects of the building unless a player is prepared to bust in and potentially break locks and boards"

If I can break through, does that mean that I won't be allowed to walk into the kitchen or maybe bathroom? :D @DZS If I can't I just don't, that's it. What if I have a gun and destory the locks? Why would I not be allowed to use certain parts of the building? I am not sure how you see it...

I don't need any claims system. All I want is zombies stop spawning in a house that I currently occupy, fortify, stash stuff, etc. With traps, tools and fortification system I am good.
 
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Dr. J

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I have to go with @jedi_warrior here. I also just want to see something to stop zombies spawning in a house I'm having a kip in, or am starting to fortify.
This game is hard enough, especially if you're just starting out. Well, it is for me.
 
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DZS

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Well you see, a claims system allows greater things like the ability to form clans and assign players to functions. You might want player bob to be the cook hes assigned access to the stove and all cooking appliances thats his role, player chad might be the guy who makes ammo say there's a bullet loading machine. The game is only hard playing on your own, that's going to change once its public on steam.

@jedi_warrior Hey buddy nice to see you on the forums. What i was meaning was things like appliances stoves machines being locked down typical sort of mechanics where a building is claimed. Sure if you can break into another persons base then break any locks on their stash you can grab their stuff. Blocking rooms would be silly didn't mean that at all. Im reasonably sure STN is being built around cooperative game play, lone wolf is entirely possible but harder ofc. Once trade is really there lone wolfing it will be much easier it'd then be a matter of finding something worth trading and locating possibly an NPC trader or another player or group of players.

I will say a claim system isn't the only way to stop zombies spawning in a building but it adds more options to be tacked on as it were.

Anyone who's under the illusion that STN is going to remain a lone wolf sorta game isn't with it, man you guys wait till the Russians invade STN then were all gonna be teaming up :p

Or other interesting people like the Khans :oops:
 
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DZS

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I have to go with @jedi_warrior here. I also just want to see something to stop zombies spawning in a house I'm having a kip in, or am starting to fortify.
This game is hard enough, especially if you're just starting out. Well, it is for me.
What would be best with a claims system is to make it easily accessible, not something like a rare item as cool as finding a pre-apocalypse poster of elvis would be. This is why i think a sleeping bag is a good way to start it. Basically what a claims system would do is create a small proximity radius where the zombies cant spawn, it creates a no spawn zone on the map. If the moment a player placed a single board on a window that building was then claimed by them that would create potentially alot of problems later particularly in exploits. If however beds were made craftable and destroyable that might be a better option, hopefully not requiring a great amount of materials for a basic bed. Like a few bricks some planks of wood and a sleeping bag, that's not too difficult. It shouldn't be something that's instantly obtainable stopping zombies spawn in a house, but it should be only moderately challenging. Sort of a early to mid game thing. You learn to play the game then learn a few more intermediate systems.

Another way to do it would be where if more than 1 player is in a building the zombies immediately stop spawning in there, as 2+ players is a flag that a group might be setting up. That would really encourage coop gameplay. It wouldn't be great right now ofc but once the player count increases. An achievement could also be tied into this to encourage players to bring a friend.
 

Dr. J

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I think we've the same sort of thinking going on here @DZS , it's all about stopping zombies spawning in a 'claimed' area, not about them chasing you inside, or about other players having a good mootch though your loot and taking what they want.

I like the radius idea, I don't see it working in the game where you could claim an entire three story apartment block just by getting on to the roof. Perhaps just one floor, a few rooms?

I'm still not sure the sleeping bag option you prefer would work … you craft it, but when you place it, you use it. It's not a permanent solution. That's why I voted for the trophy option. Something that needs crafting and placing which doesn't give you a log-off opportunity as well. Something persistent. A visible game item that would show other players someone else was living there.

I'll give this more thought.
 

jedi_warrior

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Well you see, a claims system allows greater things like the ability to form clans and assign players to functions. You might want player bob to be the cook hes assigned access to the stove and all cooking appliances thats his role, player chad might be the guy who makes ammo say there's a bullet loading machine. The game is only hard playing on your own, that's going to change once its public on steam.
I don't like the idea of roles in this game. Although creating in-game clans sounds good and is a way to have communities in the game but I don't think people like to be limited to the roles they have. Something like in Arma 3 Exile would be nice but limiting players to perform only certain actions does not sound good to me. What if I am a cook, alone in the house and there's a player or a zombie attacking the property? Not being able to create ammo or perform any activity to counterattack is not a good idea at all.
What i was meaning was things like appliances stoves machines being locked down typical sort of mechanics where a building is claimed. Sure if you can break into another persons base then break any locks on their stash you can grab their stuff.
So in real life, when you break into a house, in order to steal someone's stuff you first need to destroy their bed? :D Perhaps you didn't mean to recreate real life in the game but not being able to use a stove once you've broken into someone's house does not sound good to me.

I think some kind of trophy could do here. Obviously, in order to place a trophy you first have to create it. In order to create it, the game would require you first to find proper tools and resources. This, however, poses a threat of exploits - people could go around the map and place trophies everywhere to prevent zombies from spawning so an aditional check "when was the last time a player has been to a property" would be required to spawn zombies in houses that have not been visited within certain time.
 

Dr. J

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I'm right with you here @jedi_warrior , one trophy per player is the way to go. Just a way to say 'I live here' and prevent zombies spawning there. Perhaps there could be a way to delete your current trophy and then set a new one where you are?

You're spot on with creation and placement. The game is hard, so making a place marker should not be easy. Using tools, scavenged res and possibly a workbench would be my idea. Perhaps you could craft it and then take it with you? Like a sleeping bag?

I also don't like the role model idea. For me, every player should have access to all equipment and items.
 

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I kind of agree with Dr.J and jedi warrior. The claiming system shouldn't change anything but making zombies not spawn in the specific area in which it is applied, anything other than that is not needed, some of the stuff that DZS suggested like not being able to use appliances because the area is claimed by someone is something that just doesn't sound needed (and I personally don't think that players should be able to truly "claim" something, I personally think that the system should only give players the ability to stop zombie spawns in a specific house and no more or less than that), other stuff that DZS suggested like roles in a clan and stuff like that can just be done with roleplay and a game mechanic for it isn't really needed in my opinion (or at least the claiming system shouldn't be related to it).
Now when it comes to how the system would work I think that a claim radius system or a "place this object to claim this building" system wont work just because of balancing (lets say how many of those objects can one player place, lets say you restrict it to one per player, well then can a group of people just make a ghost town then ?, then you might say that you can add a group system and there would be one allowed per group but at that point you are just adding a system to support another system and people could just abuse it by lets say, just not being in the same group).
Now since the game wont add building (so stuff like big compounds are out of the picture) and there will only be fortification of houses (and maybe reinforcement of broken fences), the system that I think would match the game the best and would not be restricting (or very easy to get a hold of but at the same time it wouldn't be too hard to get because its linked to an important game mechanic) is locking entrances.
Here is how I think it would work, every room/house has a couple of entrances, now each door would have a little check (lets say red for positive, green for negative and yellow for blocked) that would say if its locked or not, if its locked and lets say its the only way into a room, then zombies wont spawn in that room and that room itself has a check, so now that room is red and zombies don't spawn in it. Now you might say, well if you lock the two entrances to a house but the rest of the rooms are not locked, would zombies still spawn in those rooms, well then because the area which the door to the room leads to is red the door becomes yellow because its blocked and that whole room is now yellow, which means no zombies spawn in it but the entrance itself is not locked. Now of course you can throw in windows as well if you think it would be too abusable. If you ask me this system makes perfect sense, if you fortify a whole house or room then zombies wont spawn in it.
Now you can say that its unfair because then clans would abuse it but its linked to the fortification system so if its abusable then the fortification system itself is abusable because you wouldn't have had access to that building or room anyways because it would have been barricaded.
Overall I don't know how doable such a system is because maybe its too complicated and would be to hard to code or something but that's the best fool proof, realistic system (that matches this game) that I can think of.
 
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Velocetation

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I would think as soon as you add a lock to a or all doors it would prevent spawns.
Yeah that's the basic premise of the idea but I had to add some stuff with keeping the mechanic being abused mind as well as it working smoothly for all players with a lot play styles in mind
 

jedi_warrior

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Now when it comes to how the system would work (...)
I think the best way to solve the "abuseabilty" of the trophy system would be to have each claimed house to have an extra check, which checks if there was a player that claimed that house within X time. If the player hasn't been in that house, say, for 2 days, then spawn zombies in it. That's it. This kind of check shouldn't be difficult to implement, you are able to achieve this in every scripting programming language. Or, even better, restrict a player to claim only one house in a town. This way we would solve the problem with players claiming all the houses in a town making it a ghost town.
 

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I don't see how claiming a town is a bad thing, if anything it would be an achievement of a survival game, not only survive but thrive by taking back a town from the undead. Since buildings have a finite amount of doors and therefore locks that can be placed it isnt possible for a building to be permanently claimed without proper upkeep as zombies and players can break through them with relative ease. Zombies would still spawn on the streets or surrounding woodlands and could wonder in to the city.
 

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I don't see how claiming a town is a bad thing, if anything it would be an achievement of a survival game, not only survive but thrive by taking back a town from the undead. Since buildings have a finite amount of doors and therefore locks that can be placed it isnt possible for a building to be permanently claimed without proper upkeep as zombies and players can break through them with relative ease. Zombies would still spawn on the streets or surrounding woodlands and could wonder in to the city.
Yeah, I agree in a way with you, but the question is, how do you define "claimed". This is a questions I raised earlier in the thread. You see, people have different opinions and one of them is that claimed means "owned" by someone and owned means currently used, where currently means today or soon :) You know what I mean. However, some people might have a different opinion and they may simply put a trophy in every house of the town and just go away and never come back, because they can. This is called exploit and we need to remedy that by implementing a solution for that. Personally, I don't think I would be able to manage so many houses in a town. The survival is pretty hard in this game so managing so many building in a town could be very hard, if not impossible. One would be hard enough for me.
 

Dr. J

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You know, I think we're all sort of angling for the same thing. We can look at the posts from @[U]Velocetation[/U], @gummy8unny ,@jedi_warrior , @DZS or myself.
All we want is a safe area to spawn back in to to continue our game. Some way to continue the game without having zombies around as a first issue when logging on. It would let us all get orientated as we continue the game experience.
As to how to claim an area, well I still favour a craftable trophy, just one per player active at any time, if you create and place another, it negates the first. That would stop a town claim by an individual. But it could make grouping up a bit more fun if you could see claims. Perhaps if you could see something that says a certain player is trying to make this home, then you could either add your own claim, or destroy theirs?

Again, more thought needed here ...
 

gummy8unny

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With just the locks its more of a general method of preventing zombies spawning in buildings with no specific ties to an individual or group. With the trophy claims it is more player centric in that in is tied to a specific person and directly influences other players. Maybe a good solution is to have both. (correct me if im wrong) Currently if you fortify a building and log off you will come back to that spot even if I were to come in and replace every lock with my own when you come back online you will end up trapped inside, zombies will be attracted to you and try and break in and you may have enough materials to break out as locks aren't very strong atm. So maybe if you lock up a building it will prevent zombies from spawning inside but if you place a trophy inside as well it could strengthen locks and prevent other players from logging in there. It could also provide other benefits to give players a reason to settle down and continually develop an area.
 

Dr. J

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I'm liking that idea @gummy8unny , a 'claim' helps strengthen your fortifications within an area radius, for you and perhaps anyone else who has crafted a trophy and left it inside. Perhaps that could be what stops zombie spawns? I'm not sure we'd want to stop other players spawning in to the location, or preventing them from a good rummage though your hard earned loot.

It could be a great way of people teaming up, we currently can't see the position of a logged off player, but a place marker like a trophy that was visible to all might be something the team @a2z(Interactive); might want to consider.
 
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DZS

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What i was thinking with looking down crafting objects was based on Empyrion, what works in one game doesn't necessarily work in another.

@Velocetation onto a good idea, because locks already exist in game it could be a place to start with a claims system tacking it onto the locking of doors something like right click claim building which is then cancelled out for that player on that server except in that building. If they busted all locks in that building they could then start a new in another building. Yes one way to do it would be room by room, as stated its complicated to do it with a radius system or similar because you have apartment buildings. Room by room is one way that gets around this. Somehow the system would need to be made in such a way that it counts all rooms connected to that particular structure as a whole.

The only real problem to it i keep thinking of is if a single room was locked would zombies be able to spawn in all other rooms? Maybe the moment one lock was placed it would mean that all adjacent rooms would then have spawning disabled. The other point to this is that placing a lock is an indication of intent to claim ownership and call the place home. I think thats a good reason to have spawning disabled with locks. Locks can be busted but there's no reason a player couldn't lock other doors in their base, unless they were brave enough to claim a cabin in the woods then you might want 5 locks on the front door :p Apartments would be fun with your noisy groaning neighbors haha.

After some thinking on all thats been said, i thought trophies could be a secondary claim system more meant for cooperative play with the trophie's themselves being harder to craft or find. Trophie's unlike locks would be harder to destroy and if locks were busted the spawns would still be disabled. To help prevent exploits each player would be able to place trophies in a single building at any one time if they wanted to move base as with locks they'd have to destroy any and all trophies. Its a nice idea to be able to take your trophies with you but anyone can see thats going to open the door for players to own multiple homes :p Basically player crafts trophies it can only be placed in one home, from then on whilst they own that home all other trophies must be placed there, the game wont allow players to attach them to walls anywhere else.

There's alot of realestate on the map, its unlikely it'll ever all get claimed. Was it @jedi_warrior who suggested a timer? That's a great idea for ownership, if a player hasn't been back to the game for say a week their claim is given up. Last thing we want is to have servers full of claimed buildings with non existant players.
 
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