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Bob the Builder (PC Edition)

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Bchhog, Aug 6, 2018.

Can we build it?

This poll will close on Aug 20, 2018 at 1:20 AM.
  1. Yes we can!

    100.0%
  2. No we cannot!

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Bchhog

    Bchhog Avid Supporter Backer

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    [​IMG]
    Can we build a high performance gaming PC for only $1200? I sure hope we can, as I know I can't.

    Greetings

    Hey \o. It's been a good stretch of time since I last dropped by. I expect many of you may have forgotten about me. Which is fine. But I hope today you'll be able to lend an ear as I need some assistance. After having found employment, wrestled with my medical debt, and put in enough overtime hours to apply for Japanese citizenship. I at last, after several years of using an outdated laptop, have the opportunity to purchase/build a decent rig for myself.

    Now, while I'd love to do this whole process on my own. As it's a rather exciting endeavor. I've found that the whole process is rather time consuming. (In part due to complexity and being out of my field.) Simply looking into components, comparing them and reading reviews has taken most of my Sunday afternoon. And I'm not even to the point where I can assemble a fully functioning desktop PC. (This thread is taking time away too...) Realizing this is I decided to turn to you, the STN community, one of veteran gamers for help. I'm in need of your technical advise and expertise in making my final judgement. Any opinion would be helpful, but if you're willing to assist me the whole way I'd be ever grateful.

    Getting Started

    With that said, I know I need to start by setting prerequisites. Chiefly, I'm wanting to make this build about longevity. That is, I don't want to in two to three years have to dish out several hundred dollars just to keep the system from being dated. If that is an unrealistic goal given the current rapid development of PC technology. Then I'll just have to settle for an upgrade at a later time. Secondary to longevity is performance. (FPS, Graphic Settings, Overclock) I'd like to be able to play some of the newer titles, but I don't look to have Ultra settings on everything. Nor am I a fan of many TripleA titles such as Far Cry, COD, Halo, etc. At most I'd likely task my system with RTS/Strategy games. (Civ, Endless Space, HOI) For better reference, the most taxing game I own would likely be DeadSpace 2. Which I bought years ago for my laptop and was unable to run. (Steam Library: Killing Floor, L4D2, Frozen State, PayDay2)

    Concerning overclocking. I'm not knowledgeable on the details regarding it, but it does interest me. Along with many other opportunities to customize or tweak my PC from hardware to software like Linux and other programs. While I don't intend to go full Linux from the start, I am considering transferring to it as I delve deeper into PC "culture" for a lack of a better word. In essence I intend for this rig to be the starting point of my dive into the world of PC and everything involved. So something that can keep up for several years (I'm willing to upgrade.) as I complete the baby steps and learn all I can would be great.


    Tech Talk

    Talking specs, I'm firmly settled on purchasing a Ryzen build.(2nd Gen CPU & Radeon RX GPU) My reasons for the CPU are that economically it's the best choice for what money I'm putting in, and with an AMD modo I'll be less likely to have to upgrade until after 2020. (Or so I've read.) And if memory serves me I read/heard that the additional cores of the AMD will prove useful with keeping up with future games. The GPU I'm willing to exchange for a GeForce GTX 1060 due to the power usage of the Radeons leading to heating issues. Which require more to be invested in cooling and can lead to more costs down the road. And from what comparisons/reviews I've read they seem to be rather close in performance. Though, I am clueless on which Radeon/GeForce GTX is the most cost effective. The depth of my tech jargon ends at their names sadly.

    I chose the ASRock Fatal1ty over the ASRock X370 Taichi due to the additional overclocking features. From comparisons and stress tests, they scored much the same.

    A complaint I found on a Cyberpower prebuild model was that the 450W PSU was not enough to run all components. So I currently went with a Corsair CX650 in the hopes it would be well enough power to run everything and any additional cooling fans/components. I chose the Corsair due to JayzTwoCents's $1,000 Budget Gaming PC.

    After getting this far, I realized I would have to look into the various RAMs and compare them as well as HDD(Prefer 2TB, will settle for 1) and maybe even SSD due to JayzTwoCents highlighting them for assisting with booting speed. Then there's the additional and very much needed cooling systems. For monitors I had considered getting something LG, as they seemed to recently be catering to the gaming scene with a few of their monitors. Though, as far as likely purchases go. I had planned on a ASUS VG245H Black 24" 1ms (GTG) as my default, as it was recommended to me by a friend.

    Which if added would bump up my total from $794.96 to $989.58. I'm not really sure if it's worth it or if there are better cost effective monitors, but as long as it's a decent size and has FreeSync in the case of a Radeon then I'm fine with whatever. This goes for keyboard and case as well. I wouldn't be against using a keyboard from ten years ago as long as it works. And I already own a wireless mouse. If aesthetics can be sacrificed for performance, I'll make a damn case out of cardboard if need be.

    Conclusion

    I'm about halfway through making a cart of components to build a rig. I'm not entirely sure of their compatibility, but I'm confident I'll have no issues thus far. However, I'm soon meeting my budget limit and am looking for suggestions or on what to reconsider. Most of the prebuilt companies I found on Newegg that offer AMD CPU & GPU are top of the line Walmart providers. Who promise high end CPU&GPU but at the cost of low PSU and cooling systems. I would rather much avoid purchasing these units even though they're cheaper. But if push comes to shove I can buy them and upgrade the lacking pieces at a later time. I consider them an option solely due to cost effectiveness and nothing more.

    What are your thoughts? I'd love to be informed on faults in my knowledge or areas of ignorance. Hell, I'd even be open to people suggesting I wait a bit longer and go at it with a larger budget. @Num47 @strategos2411 @DemoCar82
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
    DZS, Dr. J and Num47 like this.
  2. iammargarette

    iammargarette Member

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    Now that is a kinda creepy banner, I used to watch the show.
     
  3. strategos2411

    strategos2411 Lead Moderator Lead Mod Backer

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    @Bchhog I use this site https://pcpartpicker.com/ before I build, it has a compatibility checker also, and flags if there are any potential issues. Always look into the components aswell, check if there are a large number of complaints or stability/reliability issues, I think from memory that the CX(psu) series wasn't that great, but they may have changed them from a few years ago.

    Edit - I haven't used Ryzen, but was sure that the 1700 can be OC'd to match the performance of the 1800x (probably not on all chips though). Doing a quick search shows value for money/performance the Ryzen 1700 is the best.
     
    Num47 likes this.
  4. Bchhog

    Bchhog Avid Supporter Backer

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    Thanks Strat. This will help out a ton compared to Newegg. It more or less tells you what all you need or at least what is expected in a PC. I'll look into CX when I find time. Likely play with parkpicker on mobile.
     
  5. Bchhog

    Bchhog Avid Supporter Backer

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    If you can break it you can't fix it. Who needs a PhD in medicine when you got Bob?
     
    iammargarette likes this.
  6. strategos2411

    strategos2411 Lead Moderator Lead Mod Backer

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    No worries. Also look into getting a good non conductive thermal paste, lint and static free cloth and isopropyl alcohol, needed for cleaning and applying your thermal paste, and good to have around should you need to reapply in the future.

    Did a quick build just now $1205.09 no monitor though

    16482cf1ef4b841b3ba0974c0a01b87a.png

    I usually start like this, then look at cutting the cost down by hunting around for deals online, and checking for issues with the components, similar storage to me at the moment, SSD for windows, HDD for everything else and a back up hdd to keep a copy of all my important stuff in case Windows decides to crap its pants during an update and wipe the pc(happened last year :D )

    Show me your list once done and I can have a look over it with you and see if we can get the price and components right for you.
     
    Num47 likes this.
  7. Bchhog

    Bchhog Avid Supporter Backer

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    I'll look into it.

    Aside from there being no monitor, it's a nice place to start. Depending on how long it takes deals to show up, I may could wait for next payday to work a bit more into the budget. Wow, yeah that would be insanely useful. I'm not very trustworthy of Windows for many reasons, but you've just added another big one to the list.

    Will do.
     
  8. Num47

    Num47 Sexual Tyrannosaurus Backer

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    I usually get ma pops to build'em, I'll see if he can put/find a decent rig together that will last...

    The techscribe kube 699.99 best deal reduced by 200 quid
    https://digitalpromo.co.uk/computin...050-ti-8gb-ddr4-1tb-hdd-128gb-ssd-win-10.html
    Pre-built and fully upgradeable, new 6 core amd ryzen and comes with windows 10, monitor would need to be 60Hz.
    Good monitors
    31"
    https://www.scan.co.uk/products/315-asus-va327h-curved-monitor-1920x1080-hdmi-vga

    28" (best for price and does 4k)
    https://www.scan.co.uk/products/28-...-hdmi-adaptive-sync-freesync-eye-care-monitor
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
    Dr. J likes this.
  9. Bchhog

    Bchhog Avid Supporter Backer

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    While I appreciate the price, I think it would cost too much to upgrade in the long run. I'll keep the monitors in mind though. Thanks.

    I'm back with an update after looking through PCPartPicker and various reviews/comparisons on Tom's Hardware. So far I've managed to knock down the price by a fraction. ($50-75) Right now my parts total $1082.40, but I'm still needing a case. Something preferably that allows for the radiator in the liquid cooling system.

    [​IMG]

    To walk you through the swaps, I'll start with the Cooler Master MasterLiquid 240. While I'm not certain, I believe I'll be better off with the original. While I could not find a notable difference online between the regular 240 and the lite series, there was this comment in the reviews on PCPartPicker

    - One of their builds: https://pcpartpicker.com/b/4mD2FT

    I did find some tests for the 240 lite, but the article author failed to mention what CPU they were testing. I'll take in consideration your personal experience @strategos2411 before making the final decision.

    Idle:
    [​IMG]

    Overclocked:
    [​IMG]

    The mobo I chose comparing reviews on PCPartPicker with price. I'm not entirely sure of the features, but for about $20 less than what you chose Strat I think it's an okay choice. It allows for overclocking if reviews are to be taken for anything.

    The memory I changed to save $10. While not exactly breaking the bank it allows for more room elsewhere. From my reading of reviews it was a three way tie between Corsair Vengeance, Kingston Fury, and Crucial Ballistix Sport. The latter was the more expensive of the two, and the Corsair and Kingston were dead even.

    Storage was a bit of a leap, but again I can possibly save a few bucks by going with WD for the 1TB which I would use for my important documents and such. They have a good reputation from what I've read for their HDD. The SSD was a way to allocate the extra money I had from cutting costs elsewhere. For just $35 I can nab a superior SSD in terms of speed. I think it's worth it to be honest, but it may not make a real difference in the end. Thoughts are welcome. Especially on replacing the 1TB WB with a portable HDD.

    http://ssd.userbenchmark.com/Compar...6GB-2017-vs-Kingston-A400-240GB/m237667vs3953

    The GPU is much the same as the mobo change. Comparing reviews and prices I chose one that seemed reliable but was also a bit cheaper than the 1060. I don't intend to Overclock my GPU as I'm not going to be a miner and I hope it will be able to process and play most games without much of a challenge. (I think it's a plus that this GPU has been used for mining.)

    I'm open for any arguments in favor of the 1060 though.

    Lastly, I kept the SeaSonic due to this review and it being dead square equal to the EVGA.


    Thoughts? I'm not looking for anesthetics so a cheap case will do me just fine. I may also need to purchase a wifi adapter/part. However, considering I'm hovering around $1200 still. I might as well start getting these parts when they are cheap and waiting on my next paycheck to purchase a monitor and such. It will be several days before I receive the parts anyway.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2018
  10. strategos2411

    strategos2411 Lead Moderator Lead Mod Backer

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    Honestly the components I picked were just a quick build, showing a rough cost, with the exception of deals/sales on, most of the parts you are looking for will be fairly closely priced, and you may favour/want certain components over others.

    Potentially the MasterLiquid will cool better than the Lite, as it has a larger radiator, both are competent coolers though, and in a push pull fan config, you should be able to reach a fairly stable overclock, this is also partially dependent on how lucky you are with the cpu. A 1700 will save you come cash just now, but still leaves (some) room for an upgrade path in the future 1700x, 1800x or 2700x(bios update may be required). For comparison though, one of my irl mates uses the 240 lite on a 4690k at stock clocks with turbo on(dunno why he got a K chip and not OC'd yet :D) and it keeps it in the mid to high 50s for long gaming sessions. 4690k 88w TDP vs Ryzen 1700 65w TDP, lower TDP should equate to lower temps(ambient temps,poorly applied thermal paste or bad airflow are some of the factors that can increase heat).

    The mobo is a decent choice, I am using a Gigabyte Z97 board in my build, the one you selected is AMD based, as supports Crossfire but not SLI, so good if you go with the RX580 and plan to Crossfire in the future(I wouldn't bother though, until they add support for the majority of games, there's usually very little benefit.) I found their software to be utter shit though, the smartfan crap never really worked as intended for me, but they have probably updated it by now, or I was just unlucky :D :D :D

    All ram is pretty much the same, last I checked the difference would be a few fps at most in game, so a mid priced kit would be fine, I picked the red Led ones as they would have matched well with the other mobo aesthetically :D, but yeah, the ones you have picked will be fine, but as with all components, you may still get a dead stick, or indeed a DOA on any of the parts you order. I helped my nephew with a £3000 build, when it arrived one of the dimm slots was borked, and it wouldn't boot, this was a brand new custom build, that shipped damaged or was damaged in shipping, with a dead ram slot, he just moved the ram over and it worked fine, if it were me i'd have shipped it back :D

    Again with the storage, unless its a completely ass company, then it's down to personal preference/cost, if you are only using the SSD for booting into windows, then you don't need the fastest or the biggest, I popped my OS onto a 120gb Sata SSD that I bought for £24 :D I wouldn't recommend it for anything else though, as I had R6 Siege on it aswell, and there was only 8gb space left. So the size and speed is dependant on what you want it for, and how much you are willing to spend, the one you have selected again is good though, and if you haven't used a SSD before, you'll be pleasantly surprised by how fast it is between hitting the power button, and actually being in windows :D Most HDDs are the same, so again, shop around, see what you can get for cheaper, minimum 1TBs though, anything lower is pretty pointless these days.

    1060 vs RX 580, pretty much the same performance, depending on which one you look at, if you ain't a fanboy of Team Green or Team Red, pick which one you like and get it, Asus make some good quality shit, but from personal experience i'd avoid anything by Sapphire. As for overclocking a gpu, I've tried it in the past, and never been lucky, managed to squeeze a boost of 3fps out of a GTX 770 once :D

    SeaSonic have been making great quality PSUs for a while now, your current parts selection has a estimated power requirement of 399w, so 650w should be enough for just now, and any future upgrades. It would allow you to upgrade to a 2700x, add another 16gb ram, and a 1080ti, and still only be around 520w, leaving you with more than the recommended 100w clearance, always go for 100w more than required as a minimum.

    As for a case, i'd advise one that has clearance on top for the radiator, with the front fans as intake, and exhausting the heat out of the top and back. Airflow fans if the case is fairly open, if the air has to pass through drive bays etc, then static pressure fans are better, and recommended for the radiator. But when you select a case, read reviews, watch YT vids, see what the downsides are. Clearance for components, cable management and airlfow are what i usually look for.

    Monitors - Unless you are going to be playing competitive shooters, then a "gaming" 1ms monitor isn't really required, I got my main monitor off ebay for £25, works fine and looks ok, 5ms response time 60hz refresh rate, I doubt my old brain/reflexes would benefit from that 4ms boost if I had a gaming monitor anyways :D My second monitor was £15 off ebay, only use it when streaming for stream chat, OBS and stuff, so it wasn't necessary to get a fancy new monitor there either. But read some reviews again, find something in a price range that suits your needs and whether or not you would benefit from higher refresh rates and response times.

    Finally, pcpartpicker update their prices fairly regular, with the exact same part you chose, I save a further $20 as there is a deal on newegg, so its best to check quite often, and also check retailers that aren't on their lists
     
    Bchhog likes this.
  11. strategos2411

    strategos2411 Lead Moderator Lead Mod Backer

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    Also, where will your case be sat, on a desk, floor, in a PC shelf in a desk? remember to make sure you have space for it :D

    EDIt - Will you be using a optical drive? DVD/Bluray etc?
     
  12. Bchhog

    Bchhog Avid Supporter Backer

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    I would favor more easily if I knew more about the parts haha. Having to look up a lot, but the silver lining is I'm also learning.

    You make a good case for the 240 lite, but I believe I'll stick with the original. Mostly out of refusal to upgrade later on if I can avoid it. The lite may provide adequate for the R7 1700, but I'm not so certain on the R7 2700. And for that matter any new CPU that may be released in the next few years. For the small extra price, much like the other stuff I think it's a worthwhile investment. The only problem will be the size increase and how that will affect case placement.

    It supports SLI. And after looking into the options surrounding Motherboards I'm happy with my current one. Not only does it allow the use of several Radeon, but if I wanted I could switch over to two Nividia GPUs. Then there's Raid which sounds useful. Matched with the ability to overclock, I don't think I could ask for more. The onboard Ethernet seems like it could prove useful as well.

    DOA and dead parts terrify me now. Why have you done this?

    I've read that the larger the SSD, the greater its longevity. I'm not for certain on that claim, but I did want more than my OS on it. I had planned to have at least one game on there with which to boot quickly. Perhaps something that requires a lot of generation, like Civilization or another grand strategy game. For the expressed purpose of simply getting a working PC, I may downgrade to 1 TB until later. I don't have any files I need to transfer from here or anything. I have also never used a SSD I believe. I look forward to the fast boot up times. I typically have to wait 2-3 minutes if I shut it down. Why I keep my laptop in constant hibernation mode.

    I'll stay clear of sapphire then. I'm all for Team Red. Mostly as they're cost effective and offer more cores and threads. While not really too useful to the modern gamer of today they might mean something for the future. And beyond that I just think it's good policy.

    Cases... I'm divided.


    Even the regular NZXT-S340 seems like a decent buy. It's a tie between it, NZXT-S340 Elite and the Redline RL06BR-Pro. I'd prefer the latter in white compared to the Black&Red, but having a hard time finding it in that color.

    Will do. Checking other retailers is how I'll save money in the long run likely. As for where the case will be set, the floor or on a table likely. Was thinking of getting one of those white unfolding tables. My current one is so unstable I doubt a monitor could rest on it. I'll likely not get an optical drive for some time. Most games now days are downloadable via steam and I do no plan to burn or edit any CDs.
     
    strategos2411 likes this.
  13. strategos2411

    strategos2411 Lead Moderator Lead Mod Backer

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    Re - SLI, yeah just checked, didn't notice the K5 and looked at the regular GA AX370 :D

    Wouldn't worry too much about DOA, as long as you buy form somewhere reputable, then you can always RMA,just means a slightly longer wait to get the PC up and running.

    If its on the floor or a table then you won't have to worry much about the size of the case, and imo a case without any front drive bays for optical drives looks better. Will look at that vid later, just having coffee then heading out for a lil bit
     
  14. Dr. J

    Dr. J Survivor Backer

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    Well, I'm late to the party with my 'two penneth' here, but you'll get it anyway - hope it helps.
    I've been building my own PCs for about 25 years, and like you, @Bchhog, I want them to last a while.
    So it's a case of go big or go home.
    As you say, the rate of change in the computer market is still rapid. Lets think about the basics...
    Get a motherboard that easily takes the processor family you want and check that processor line is going to be current for a while.
    I like a nice big case because it's easier to work with, but as @strategos2411 says, it depends on where you will put it.
    Go for a bigger PSU, I use an 850W unit, and it can struggle with the 5V lines for all the USB stuff I've connected.
    For my last build, I tried to keep to as few manufacturers as possible. The main board is by MSI, and they have overclocking applications available if you want to go that way. The PSU, case and liquid cooler are from Corsair. Again there's an program that gives me one point of interaction with fan speeds and monitoring.
    For hard drives, I use Samsung Evo Pros (one for the O/S, one for games and stuff), and a RAID 5 array of Western Digital 'spinning rust' Red Pros for nearline storage.
    I spend three months researching all the hardware.
    Take your time, spend as much as you dare.
     
    Num47 likes this.
  15. strategos2411

    strategos2411 Lead Moderator Lead Mod Backer

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    if you are searching for RL06BR then you will only get the black and red, as that's what the BR stands for in the name. https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA00Y61F7722&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-PCPartPicker, LLC-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID= White version with silver trim on Newegg

    http://www.performance-pcs.com/silv...ro-white-with-silver-trim-led-fan-window.html
     
  16. DZS

    DZS Survivor Backer

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    I break my pcs to fix them. The new thing for me is science.

    The only case that matters
    https://www.corsair.com/ww/en/Categories/Products/Cases/Obsidian-Series™-900D-Super-Tower-Case/p/CC-9011022-WW

    PC Masta race

    wtf
    [​IMG]

    Old man note - i would offer some advice but ive not kept up with the play lately. AMD pissed me off when they released their cpu that was meant to compete with core i and failed. My next upgrade will be an ivy bridge mobo with prob an I5, ivy bridge is considered to be the best overclocker of all intel core i gen mobo's. Options started going downhill from haswell onwards.

    If your looking for a good heatsink try this site
    http://www.frostytech.com/
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
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  17. Bchhog

    Bchhog Avid Supporter Backer

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    Doh!

    That should have been a bit more obvious. Thanks for the clarification and links, I definitely prefer the white to the BR. To give a small update, I think I've mostly settled on my parts by now. I may look into more mobos to see if any variations can be found and I may downgrade to the Radeon RX 480. (How much difference is there really in 1080p and 1440p?) Though those seem to be rare and expensive to a degree. I had hoped the opposite were true, but PcPartPicker doesn't have much.

    I plan on responding to the rest of your replies tomorrow, but for now I'll say I've a new dilemma that needs attention. Purchasing and assembling my rig. I know if I'm patient I'll likely catch some good deals, but I'm a bit impatient and I'm not entirely sure how to go about it. Should I just sit and check every individual part daily for deals? Do I order them one at a time and store them somewhere safe so they don't get damaged until I get the finished product? How can I gauge whether the current deal is the best available?

    Some builds have crazy savings.
    https://pcpartpicker.com/b/dP9J7P

    OS: Freaking $8 - Current Price: $100
    PSU: $65 - Current Price: $100
     
  18. strategos2411

    strategos2411 Lead Moderator Lead Mod Backer

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    I've never gamed above 1080p so no idea if 1440p is much better or not :D I think when the RX580s launched they were on average 10% better than the 480s for performance but with higher power requirements, this may have changed now though, i've had my 480 for 2 years now, and apart form Sapphires crap thermal paste on my card, the only other issue has been a couple of shit drivers from AMD, but yeah, they will be harder to find new now.

    When i was building, then upgrading this rig, I just shopped around, Amazon, Ebay, and any other online retailer that sold PC components. If you see a part that you want, and it's reasonably priced, buy it. Unless you buy in all your parts at the same time, then yeah just store them somewhere safe until you have everything, watch a few vids on YT of people building in the same case that you get, see if there is anything else you need to make the build easier, or to help with cable management etc, I also plan the build in my head once i have all the components, saved me a bit of hassle when I upgraded to my 280mm AIO cooler, as i realised that my mobo only supports 3 fans +cpu, so I bought in some fan splitter cables, and installed/upgraded my rig once they arrived, otherwise I would have been left with 4 fans not attached to anything :D

    You guys have Labor Day in 3 weeks, do retailers/amazon whatever do deals over the Labor Day weekend?
     
  19. strategos2411

    strategos2411 Lead Moderator Lead Mod Backer

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    Different parts, same case, pretty much standard build using your case - you obviously don't have to follow it exactly, depends if you are swapping out the case fans etc
     
  20. Bchhog

    Bchhog Avid Supporter Backer

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    I've read that buying stuff from Ebay and other online market places will void a components warranty. But I suppose if I'm buying used parts that doesn't matter much. Good call, I'm not even sure what my mobo supports in that aspect. Should I be looking into sound cards? I noticed that Barak included one into his build, but I'm not entirely sure if they're mandatory. I assume that's mostly if you desire to install speakers.

    You know I wasn't sure, but it seems that the PC market gets the Labor Day fever as well.

    https://techatron.net/gamestop-labor-day-sales/
    https://www.ibuypower.com/Sale/Labor-Day
    https://www.offers.com/labor-day/bestbuy/

    Waiting until then to start getting the bulk of my parks or the more expensive may be a good idea. Additionally, I'll likely look up the original prices for certain components and scout to see whenever they go below or get near that price before buying. If anything I can avoid having to pay for the hyperinflation of bit mining. :D