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Bullet physics

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WasabiKicks91

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I just thought it would be realistic if certain caliber bullets could actually clear through certain materials. A lot of people are comfortable taking cover behind a wooden door, but in real life a .30 caliber round or 12 gauge slug could clear through the door. This would play a serious role in gun safety. Too many players are comfortable with the notion that mailboxes, cars, and wood boards are bullet proof. While some rounds are incapable of going straight through certain obstacles that is a very small collection of calibers. A .22 is known to skip and ricochet off the surface of water and is considered lethal up to a mile and a half. (Of course naturally that all depends on bullet drop and how much energy it still retains at that range. But it is still considered dangerous by many and it's the smallest rimfire cartridge in existence. I'm just suggesting that the realism of the physics play an important role and you should really have to watch where you're pointing your weapon, if zombies are in front of boarded up house and the possibility of survivors inside exist, would you risk taking a shot and having it go through that zombie or completely miss and going through their wood boards, door or walls and potentially killing another player?
 

Shrykull

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I would like to see not only this, but the implication of realistic bullet damage and hydrostatic shock. If you get hit by a .308 in center mass your not getting back up even if the initial gun shot didn't kill you, you would be so messed up someone else would have to be there to tend to your wounds or you would bleed out very quickly, and if you got shot in the arm or leg that limb might as well be gone.

Hydrostatic shock is something that occurs when certain calibers of ammunition create a shockwave of energy that travels through your body fluids that can destroy the brain. A .45 caliber bullet for example, striking centermass can potentially create a shockwave of energy that will cause your brain to rupture and hemorrhage killing you before loss of blood would. This is something that is generally caused by slower fatter rounds like the .45 auto as opposed to thinner faster bullets that are more likely to pass through the body.
 
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WasabiKicks91

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I would like to see not only this, but the implication of realistic bullet damage and hydrostatic shock. If you get hit by a .308 in center mass your not getting back up even if the initial gun shot didn't kill you, you would be so messed up someone else would have to be there to tend to your wounds or you would bleed out very quickly, and if you got shot in the arm or leg that limb might as well be gone.

Hydrostatic shock is something that occurs when certain calibers of ammunition create a shockwave of energy that travels through your body that can destroy the brain. A .45 caliber bullet for example, striking centermass can potentially create a shockwave of energy that will cause your brain to rupture and hemorrhage killing you before loss of blood would. This is something that is generally caused by slower fatter rounds like the .45 auto as opposed to thinner faster bullets that are more likely to pass through the body.
.357 Magnum and 9mm are notorious for hydrostatic shock
 

Shrykull

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.357 Magnum and 9mm are notorious for hydrostatic shock
So in theory Hydrostatic shock could mean that certain calibers of ammunition could kill zombies with centermass shots, so someone packing a .357 or a .45 auto could destroy a zombies brain by shooting it in the chest.
 
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WasabiKicks91

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On a living target is one thing. With a zombie it could or could not be possible depending on how severely the brain must be damaged in order to kill a zombie. In the old Romero films that the developers are basing the game on, zombies must take direct damage to the brain either by head shots or severe trauma to the head. Decapitation may have eliminated the zombie from being mobile but the head still lives and is considered dangerous. Now take into consideration once the body stops blood flow has ceased. In the event a zombie is shot despite the power or the round's capability for hydrostatic shock in theory the brain should not suffer from hemorrhage due to lack of blood flow. Even if it were possible a hemorrhage still takes time to take it's full effect. As you know many people, while later incapacitated physically and or mentally, can survive a hemorrhage if treated accordingly. If nothing can be done it still takes time for the blood to fill the brain case and kill the victim. Working in a hospital I had a patient who died from a hemorrhage that she had for a few days and literally the brain was rotated 180 degrees due to the pressure created by the blood in the skull, however it did NOT destroy the brain completely. And zombies don't really stop because they have intercranial bleeding. A zombie must be stopped immediately
 

Shrykull

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I did say in theory... I wasn't tossing up the sheets on it or nothing. Just giving food for thought. I would say that the blood of the zombie(depending on how fresh the corpse) since no longer pumping and alive, would now be very clotted and thick so hydrostatic shock wouldn't even do anything at all maybe.
 
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WasabiKicks91

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Ah I must have missed that part. Sorry. And while we are on the subject of physics we may as well bring up windage and bullet drop. I know Day Z did it but it's one of my favorite feature. It's also a good idea to bring up muzzle energy and Ft-lb. I mean the closer to the muzzle you are the more energy is delivered.
 

Fraesser

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Yea I think bullet drop is essential and very realistic, I agree with you on that! @WasabiKicks91 ! It would be a bonus if they varied damage at ranged distaces. I think it is also realistic that your phsical ability will be affected once shot not just blood on your screen like cod haha @Shrykull. Good ideas I like them!
 
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WasabiKicks91

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The types of rounds used also play a role in penetration and ballistic damage. You have lead ammunition that is round but much dirtier and prolonged firing of lead rounds can melt and deform the bullet throwing accuracy off, hollow points obviously expand on impact to create a bigger hydrostatic shock or wounding effect but it sacrifices penetration, and then you have fragmentation rounds which like the name suggests the bullets fragment (or break into smaller pieces) on impact and are typically popular with rifles as the idea is that the fragmentation can prevent over penetration through objects. Different grains (weight of the bullet) also dictate how fast or slow a round is traveling so a 30 grain .22 LR will naturally travel faster than a 40 grain .22 this allowing it to retain more energy which will allow it to hit with a little more force
 

Vegalyp

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I do love these ideas, but some of these features would be hard to put into a game because they put a lot of weight on the CPU. This being a small team, not putting this in might be better for them. Bullet drop especially because it requires them to simulate the bullet in code as another entity.

That being said, while we are on the subject, would there be different types of ammo? E.g. Hollow point .45 may not pierce anything, but on a soft/squishy target... massive damage. And a .45 FMJ might have good penetration, but not as great initial damage. Same for 9mm, .40 SW, etc.

And even different ammo types for shotgun (Birdshot, Buckshot, Slugs just to keep things simple). Up close, they all do massive damage. Birdshot is better for birds at range because of spread, buck is deer or human, and slug is the f*%#er-upper, being slow but if it hits anything it is goodbye.
 
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WasabiKicks91

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I wish I could get that video of my friend shooting a 3 inch magnum slug at a 2 liter
 
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I would like to see not only this, but the implication of realistic bullet damage and hydrostatic shock. If you get hit by a .308 in center mass your not getting back up even if the initial gun shot didn't kill you, you would be so messed up someone else would have to be there to tend to your wounds or you would bleed out very quickly, and if you got shot in the arm or leg that limb might as well be gone.

Hydrostatic shock is something that occurs when certain calibers of ammunition create a shockwave of energy that travels through your body that can destroy the brain. A .45 caliber bullet for example, striking centermass can potentially create a shockwave of energy that will cause your brain to rupture and hemorrhage killing you before loss of blood would. This is something that is generally caused by slower fatter rounds like the .45 auto as opposed to thinner faster bullets that are more likely to pass through the body.
So you want to see one shot kills?
 
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WasabiKicks91

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It's realistic. However, it's all about shot placement. There are people that have survived outrageous bullet wounds, there are even people that survived head shots. I've heard of people that have been shot with rifles that, while they may be physically weakened or deformed, have survived shotgun and rifles. It's all a matter of the type of ammo, where the bullet hits, how much damage is done, and how quickly the problem can be corrected.
 

Shrykull

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So you want to see one shot kills?
I'm just saying that there would be a chance for a one hit kill assuming hydrostatic shock worked the same on a walking corpse and that it damaged the brain enough to stop the zombie. It was just something I thought about before and this post reminded me of it.
 
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WasabiKicks91

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The .357 Magnum would most likely pass right through the body, but might stay if stopped by the spine or a rib.
Depends on the distance, barrel length and wether you used hollow points or solid FMJs ;D
 

Vegalyp

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Just to weigh in, hollow point .45 or .357.... I would almost rather be shot by a shotgun. Those rounds are nasty.
 

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The only game I've seen do anything like this (correctly, and realistically) is Arma 3. And all that sort of bullet ballistics stuff have been BIS's bread and butter for a while.

I like the idea of penetration, with certain rounds having a higher chance of penetrating certain targets, but a line has to be drawn hours of work - practicality, and though I'm no coder, this doesn't seem worth it.

At the end of the day, if you're gonna die you'll be slinging down whatever rounds you have at your target. Not thinking about how to candy cane your shotgun loads for this that and the other.

Bullet drop being added goes without saying. But advanced penetration physics, with the type of round also being a variable seems like too much. Same with hydrostatic shock, cool? Yes. Practical to work on? I'd say no. Just aim for the darn head!

 

Dregonoid

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Realistic bullet physics should be incorporated in any survival game. If your whole point is realism how can the laws of physics not be incorporated in the grand picture of things
 

MrMoose

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Realistic bullet physics should be incorporated in any survival game. If your whole point is realism how can the laws of physics not be incorporated in the grand picture of things
Well, yes, but "Realistic bullet physics" is very vague wording. How "realistic" should it be? Bullet drop? Sure. Relatively accurate penetration? Great! But when you start getting into things like the retained energy (while penetrating), wind, bullet spin, temperature, moisture, elevation, curvature of the earth; a line has to be drawn, and a more specific definition of "realistic bullet physics" has to be defined.
 
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