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Idea: How to Defend Self Without Sanity Lowering

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Bryce Reid

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Summary: A way to let you defend yourself without you wasting sanity.

Description: So, I am I not a coder myself but I understand basic principles that my dad has taught me. So here is the only way I can think to make this make sense:

Key:
Entity 1: Player 1
Entity 2: Player 2
Projectile 1: Bullet/Missile Weapon


How it Would Work: If Projectile 1 from Entity 2 enters within *Blank* distance of Entity 1 then sanity immunity = true.

Non-Coding Talk: Essentially, if someone shoots at someone the person who is getting shot at is able to kill the person firing at them without suffering as much as killing someone in cold blood. Now, this doesn't have to be total immunity, killing a human is still killing a human, but it would be at least less than first opening fire.

If a dev could reply whether or not this would work, that would be great.
 

Kirk

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I know in Dayz firefights can last a very long time, would need a cooldown, also would need to keep track of who shoots first within that set distance.
 

BOOMstyx

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Summary: A way to let you defend yourself without you wasting sanity.

Description: So, I am I not a coder myself but I understand basic principles that my dad has taught me. So here is the only way I can think to make this make sense:

Key:
Entity 1: Player 1
Entity 2: Player 2
Projectile 1: Bullet/Missile Weapon


How it Would Work: If Projectile 1 from Entity 2 enters within *Blank* distance of Entity 1 then sanity immunity = true.

Non-Coding Talk: Essentially, if someone shoots at someone the person who is getting shot at is able to kill the person firing at them without suffering as much as killing someone in cold blood. Now, this doesn't have to be total immunity, killing a human is still killing a human, but it would be at least less than first opening fire.

If a dev could reply whether or not this would work, that would be great.
Should be no penalty. If the SOB tried to kill me for my backpack I wouldn't be the least bit stressed over ensuring he fails. Hell, I'd probably take a s**t on him before moving out, much less be upset/go insane over it.
 
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BOOMstyx

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Easier way of thinking about is, Just kill so you don't die, for me, mental instability isn't so much as a burden. It'll go away as i play. Just don't go on a killing spree and you'll be fine.


Also Rather then thinking about it as mental instability, think of it as Combat shock.
All the examples of this I keep reading are assuming one assailant, and seem to picture you not running into any other would be killers any time soon. This would probably be the case most of the time, but say for example, it's a group that's trying to gank you. And through some miracle you come out on top. Now you're going to start hearing voices and crap because a bunch of asshats didn't let you mind your own business? Just ... wrong ...
 

Noah

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All the examples of this I keep reading are assuming one assailant, and seem to picture you not running into any other would be killers any time soon. This would probably be the case most of the time, but say for example, it's a group that's trying to gank you. And through some miracle you come out on top. Now you're going to start hearing voices and crap because a bunch of asshats didn't let you mind your own business? Just ... wrong ...
Yeah but the thing is, it's the "One of cast the first stone", Everything else falls into line. We'll only know if it'll really work when we're out on the field.
 

Kodama

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I just think as long as it isnt persistent and slowly you regain your mental stability over some time then it would be alright.. if it were possible to maybe half the amount of instability you get for defending yourself versus going out on a manhunt, that WOULD be better in my opinion.
 

Ryouseiken

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I have to fall in line with some of the other thoughts here. As long as the flagging isn't persistent and you regain mental stability over time after perhaps having been forced to kill one or more players to defend yourself, then I think it'll be alright. My concern is that there's a permanent counter no matter how far apart player kills are, and eventually when you hit a certain number of kills, you off yourself. That would not be the way to go in my opinion.
 

Biscuits

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Should be no penalty. If the SOB tried to kill me for my backpack I wouldn't be the least bit stressed over ensuring he fails. Hell, I'd probably take a s**t on him before moving out, much less be upset/go insane over it.
Survive the Nights stresses realism, and while lots of action games *coughCoDcough* have painted war as fun, easy and heroic the reality is the stress of killing people does hurt them mentally (a very quick search gave the statistic of 20% of soldiers have a mental disorder of some sort, not very scientific but a rough estimate.) Whether or not you're defending yourself or you feel justified in your actions killing another human affects your mental health. (see every Zombie dictator ever)

 
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Lt Snake X

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Easier way of thinking about is, Just kill so you don't die, for me, mental instability isn't so much as a burden. It'll go away as i play. Just don't go on a killing spree and you'll be fine.


Also Rather then thinking about it as mental instability, think of it as Combat shock.
i agree with you 100% with the stability they are trying to insure. i know not everyone in real life would be upset at ending a life not everyone has seen someone die in front of their eyes or taken a life so idk where some of these people get off saying "it wouldnt bother me because they shot first" (FYI im not saying i have taken a life but i have seen death first hand from a dude talking to me to straight cardiac arrest) the mental stress should be on everyone and yea it get annoying if you are a good shot and people keep trying to bandit you but at that point you need to think to yourself "what am i doing that keeps making me a target..."
 

BOOMstyx

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i agree with you 100% with the stability they are trying to insure. i know not everyone in real life would be upset at ending a life not everyone has seen someone die in front of their eyes or taken a life so idk where some of these people get off saying "it wouldnt bother me because they shot first" (FYI im not saying i have taken a life but i have seen death first hand from a dude talking to me to straight cardiac arrest) the mental stress should be on everyone and yea it get annoying if you are a good shot and people keep trying to bandit you but at that point you need to think to yourself "what am i doing that keeps making me a target..."
yeah some guy talking to you and then dropping dead. First off, I'm sorry you went through that. That would definitely bother me, especially if it was someone I liked or at least with whom I didn't have a problem. But he wasn't trying to kill you for your meager possessions. You said talking to the guy, which doesn't sound like he was even so much as yelling at you. you can't compare the two. Completely different situations. And yeah, I've seen people die, I've seen dead people (not in a 6th sense kind of way). When it's someone you don't give a s**t about or even better, really dislike, it's not the same as having that guy drop from a heart attack in front of you.

I don't agree with that statement that you need to think to yourself, 'what am i doing that keeps making me a target' either. We're talking about BANDITS here. So, what did you do? Walk down the road; go around a tree; look through a loot box? If you're minding your own business and not waving a gun around/aiming down the sights at anyone, the answer is nothing. You didn't do anything to make some prick want to shoot you, other than having a backpack full of crap he's too lazy to go looking around for. Or you just happen to be the same shape as his favorite target, a person. Again, not the fault of the person being attacked, shouldn't penalize them.

If everyone is going to keep insisting on telling others how they're going to feel about it, at least make the time it takes to remove such a penalty be a lot shorter than it would be for a KOS player. Yeah you killed them, yeah you got hit with combat stress, but this is the zombie apocalypse. You've already been through hell and back before the player even took your life over. Otherwise, you wouldn't still be walking, not shuffling and moaning, around.

You've probably seen your family, friends, and that cute girl down at the local mini-mart you were thinking about asking out, all get eaten alive already. This too shall pass and it will pass quickly. Because people you liked a hell of a lot more than that a**hole bandit you just ventilated, have left your life in a much more painful and messy way than that prick just did.
 
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Lt Snake X

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yeah some guy talking to you and then dropping dead. First off, I'm sorry you went through that. That would definitely bother me, especially if it was someone I liked or at least with whom I didn't have a problem. But he wasn't trying to kill you for your meager possessions. You said talking to the guy, which doesn't sound like he was even so much as yelling at you. you can't compare the two. Completely different situations. And yeah, I've seen people die, I've seen dead people (not in a 6th sense kind of way). When it's someone you don't give a s**t about or even better, really dislike, it's not the same as having that guy drop from a heart attack in front of you.

I don't agree with that statement that you need to think to yourself, 'what am i doing that keeps making me a target' either. We're talking about BANDITS here. So, what did you do? Walk down the road; go around a tree; look through a loot box? If you're minding your own business and not waving a gun around/aiming down the sights at anyone, the answer is nothing. You didn't do anything to make some prick want to shoot you, other than having a backpack full of crap he's too lazy to go looking around for. Or you just happen to be the same shape as his favorite target, a person. Again, not the fault of the person being attacked, shouldn't penalize them.

If everyone is going to keep insisting on telling others how they're going to feel about it, at least make the time it takes to remove such a penalty be a lot shorter than it would be for a KOS player. Yeah you killed them, yeah you got hit with combat stress, but this is the zombie apocalypse. You've already been through hell and back before the player even took your life over. Otherwise, you wouldn't still be walking, not shuffling and moaning, around.

You've probably seen your family, friends, and that cute girl down at the local mini-mart you were thinking about asking out, all get eaten alive already. This too shall pass and it will pass quickly. Because people you liked a hell of a lot more than that a**hole bandit you just ventilated, have left your life in a much more painful and messy way than that prick just did.
sorry should have quote yours too where you posted you said there should be no penalty thats on me but the people dying was ment for that comment i should have been specific on that but i do agree on your a shorter penalty for defending then on attacking and we dont know how long the zombie apocalypse has gone on or be able to tell what the players have seen
 
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BOOMstyx

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sorry should have quote yours too where you posted you said there should be no penalty thats on me but the people dying was ment for that comment i should have been specific on that but i do agree on your a shorter penalty for defending then on attacking and we dont know how long the zombie apocalypse has gone on or be able to tell what the players have seen
you are right, we don't know. Just an assumption based on the fact that you don't spawn in with a mission to reunite with your group. which more than likely means they're dead. but i could be wrong. you might not have had family on the island. And you may have shown up the day the stuff hit the fan and not have really known or cared about anyone there. I still wouldn't feel bad about kiling a bandit though. :p heh
 

Biscuits

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If everyone is going to keep insisting on telling others how they're going to feel about it, at least make the time it takes to remove such a penalty be a lot shorter than it would be for a KOS player. Yeah you killed them, yeah you got hit with combat stress, but this is the zombie apocalypse. You've already been through hell and back before the player even took your life over. Otherwise, you wouldn't still be walking, not shuffling and moaning, around.

.
Idea: Could the amount of Sanity you lose vary depending on how many people that person has killed? If you shoot a kill-crazy bandit with lots of deaths to your name you'd suffer less than killing some poor defenseless bambi. Just a thought, some system is probably already being developed by the creators.
 

gamejunkie25th

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Summary: A way to let you defend yourself without you wasting sanity.

Description: So, I am I not a coder myself but I understand basic principles that my dad has taught me. So here is the only way I can think to make this make sense:

Key:
Entity 1: Player 1
Entity 2: Player 2
Projectile 1: Bullet/Missile Weapon


How it Would Work: If Projectile 1 from Entity 2 enters within *Blank* distance of Entity 1 then sanity immunity = true.

Non-Coding Talk: Essentially, if someone shoots at someone the person who is getting shot at is able to kill the person firing at them without suffering as much as killing someone in cold blood. Now, this doesn't have to be total immunity, killing a human is still killing a human, but it would be at least less than first opening fire.

If a dev could reply whether or not this would work, that would be great.

*Entity 1 fires at Entity 2*
*Object_Fired_Bullet within 5m = True*
*Entity 1 (2) gains Status_Mental_Instability (_stability) until Entity_2 (1) gains Status_Dead or 5min*

Instability would cause a normal loss of Mental health for killing someone
Stability would cause an X loss of Mental Health for killing someone
That is my extent of programming from playing Minecraft....
 

BOOMstyx

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Idea: Could the amount of Sanity you lose vary depending on how many people that person has killed? If you shoot a kill-crazy bandit with lots of deaths to your name you'd suffer less than killing some poor defenseless bambi. Just a thought, some system is probably already being developed by the creators.
not a bad thought.
 

Applejaxc

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1: The point of the insanity system is to, in addition to providing a reproduction for wanton murder and destruction, represent the overall toll that repeated killings of fellow humans has on an individual, regardless of the justifications and rationalizations that any of you claim to be able to hold in real life.

"What do you feel when you shoot a civilian?"
"Recoil."

In real life, when you're from a society or culture, whether it is American or Islamic or Inner City or Backwoods, that is accustomed to, or maybe even promotes, armed conflict against other humans, you become jaded to it without an extremely strong moral compass pointing you in a different direction. People in the military fighting another military, terrorism, keeping peace, or whatever can tell themselves at the end of the day that it was kill or be killed, or they were making the world a better place, or this or that and, regardless of morals or religious affiliation telling them different, they sleep easy at night without a nerve-wracking guilt in response to lives they've taken. It's true; humans learn to deal with grief when they're exposed to the cause often enough and get mentally prepared for it. And so it is the same in the survival-apocalypse genre; you tell yourself there's no need to feel guilty over defending yourself, even if (like myself) you commit acts of preemptive self defense, self-defending at 600 meters with a sniper rifle and a giddy sense of accomplishment after every kill. And that is why "Humanity" in DayZ and "Sanity" in STN is a controversial, and some would argue unrealistic, topic.

What I have to say is, I like it. I don't care how you feel in real life; given my own convictions and beliefs, I have no ethical quandary pulling the trigger on someone that seeks to hurt myself, my family, or what I believe in. Whether it's self defense or a government-issued hit, I wouldn't be driven insane by killing other people. But this isn't real life, it's a video game. Your character isn't you. I know it hurts immersion, realism, whatever, but that's only because you're thinking about it the wrong way.

Your character isn't you in the apocalypse. You are your character in the apocalypse.

While that sounds silly at first, think about it: If you are going to get caught up in realism and immersion, you need to change your perspective. Your character, "You," in the game is not an emotional tank able to rationalize all of his actions and claim self defense. You are some piss-poor, out-of-luck bum chumming it in the apocalypse, on some island with nary a hope of escape, destined to die either by nature or worse. You are stressed. You fight to survive every single day. You think of your life in weeks, not years. All you want is someone to tell you it's okay, let someone else handle your problems and deliver you from Hell. You have that hope, that desire, that desperation (even if you can't admit it to yourself), and every single human you have to kill is a violent reminder that you are fucked, no matter what you do.

So yes, I support Sanity. And, if it is not an obtrusively negative factor harming the gameplay experience, I do not support self defense as being a valid argument for insanity immunity.
 
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