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[MEGA THREAD] Stealth, Sneaking and Hiding.

FuzioN

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Only thing I don't agree with is the no sound when crouched, IMO when your crouched or "sneaky-sneaky mode:p" you'll be slower (because your crouched) and abit more silent but it should take into consideration if your wearing boots/barefoot,what your carrying, speed your moving etc

But there definitely needs to be a good sneak mechanic, would be able to do nice stealth kills on zeek then amongst other things.
They could make a weight system that changes your overall speed depending on how much you have on yourself thus lowering your sneaking speed further, i did actually not mean you had to crouch to sneak, you can sneak while standing up also.

But i dunno if it should be more effective while standing or crouched, since sound of steps is the movement of your feet and how much you lift them, if you are crouched it does not mean you make less sound, you are just less visable.


I dont see the point of adding sneaking feature if you cannot due it complete silent, a good player will hear you then, where you could just aswell just ignored the feature, yes it is a bit unrealistic, no one can make absolute 0 sound in every envirement terrain with the same shoes.

i know that, but i think gameplay wise it fits more, so i agree its not 100% realistic but it fits the game more imo.

and its a feature that is not so unrealistic it breaks immersion for me atleast, dunno about others hehe :D

oh yeah and i forgot, if you cannot sneak 100% and make 0 sound it makes melee weapons and playing melee less attractive.

becuse players can hear you, melee weapons should be deadly at close range, but no one that hear you will step close to you then :)
 

Num47

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What? No. We can't stop here. This is bat country.
i did actually not mean you had to crouch to sneak, you can sneak while standing up also.

But i dunno if it should be more effective while standing or crouched, since sound of steps is the movement of your feet and how much you lift them, if you are crouched it does not mean you make less sound, you are just less visable.
I know that :p

Things like this will be smoothed out with all these minds on it... we just need to get in and get a feel :oops:
 

Davz Not Here

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the Devs should just find a friend who hunts ..... and spend a day following along (the hawk saw it, the deer heard it, the bear smelled it) ..... go for a walk in w/e the closest forest is ..... and see for yourself how quiet you can be, it's almost surprising how loud (seemingly only, sometimes) the smallest of twigs can be when sneaking ..... and you'd be surprised how easy it is to move, at a quick pace through the leaves and scoot right by a few people ..... it's all about know how ..... and patience ..... sneaking is all about patience
 
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DemoCar82

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the Devs should just find a friend who hunts ..... and spend a day following along (the hawk saw it, the deer heard it, the bear smelled it) ..... go for a walk in w/e the closest forest is ..... and see for yourself how quiet you can be, it's almost surprising how loud (seemingly only, sometimes) the smallest of twigs can be when sneaking ..... and you'd be surprised how easy it is to move, at a quick pace through the leaves and scoot right by a few people ..... it's all about know how ..... and patience ..... sneaking is all about patience
Totally agree with this, I have hunted for years, and have stalked animals w/ a bow... This isn't easy, and you can NEVER be completely silent. I'd be more inclined to say the "sneaking", for functionality in the game, should be crouch only, so say, when you go into a crouch, that is your "sneak" mode... And it cuts down the noise you make say, in 1/2... I don't think sneak should be made so you can sneak up onto people... It should be made so you can either, keep a safe sneaky distance and avoid confrontation, or get you somewhat close to a player/zombie without them knowing... NOT sneak right up on top of them, that is very unrealistic.
 

FuzioN

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Totally agree with this, I have hunted for years, and have stalked animals w/ a bow... This isn't easy, and you can NEVER be completely silent. I'd be more inclined to say the "sneaking", for functionality in the game, should be crouch only, so say, when you go into a crouch, that is your "sneak" mode... And it cuts down the noise you make say, in 1/2... I don't think sneak should be made so you can sneak up onto people... It should be made so you can either, keep a safe sneaky distance and avoid confrontation, or get you somewhat close to a player/zombie without them knowing... NOT sneak right up on top of them, that is very unrealistic.
thing is if you implement it to not being silent against other players it makes it useless, and as i said above i agree it is not realistic no one can be complete silent, its just not possible.

but the thing is, you wont ever be able to win against a player with sound if you have a melee weapon and he has a gun however you will be able to do that if you can have complete silent sneak :)

and if he tries to kill you the guy with the gun, the chase becomes very thrilling if you can do it complete silent.

Maybe add two functionalities and have it as a possiblity to have as you say on some servers and other servers complete silent is another possbility? would make everyone satisfied, just as third person and first person server:s goes.

remember that the devs have said they want to be true to the genre, but they dont want to make it to realistic if you watch the trailer, but i dunno how much code this would be and if it would be possible without alot of code to have two server possibilities here?

would be nice to have choosing here hehe.

i would play in both settings ofc but i would for sure prefer the silent style, hey we are all diffrent after all :)
 
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DemoCar82

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The devs said "The game features unique realistic survival techniques, while remaining true to the promise that it will always be fun to play".

My point is, realistically... if you have an axe, and the other guy has a gun... most people in their right mind wouldn't try to sneak right up and whack the guy who has the gun. On the contrary, my point is, you'll have to use actual skill, your intelligence, and the current environment to overcome something like the scenario you suggest... Sneak close enough to where you don't endanger yourself by being heard, but around a corner or something that you know they'll have to pass, hide behind something, be patient, wait for them to come through the door way, then feed them the axe. This sounds like a lot of fun to me.

You are right though, everyone is different.
 

FuzioN

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The devs said "The game features unique realistic survival techniques, while remaining true to the promise that it will always be fun to play".

My point is, realistically... if you have an axe, and the other guy has a gun... most people in their right mind wouldn't try to sneak right up and whack the guy who has the gun. On the contrary, my point is, you'll have to use actual skill, your intelligence, and the current environment to overcome something like the scenario you suggest... Sneak close enough to where you don't endanger yourself by being heard, but around a corner or something that you know they'll have to pass, hide behind something, be patient, wait for them to come through the door way, then feed them the axe. This sounds like a lot of fun to me.

You are right though, everyone is different.
i get what you are saying but a good fps gamer will hear him and notice him a mile away, trust me, i did not say he should flap his hands and scream i will kill u, i meant like this,

guy with axe is inside a house, he notices thru window without getting spotted, the guy has a gun and is going to loot and search the house, he will just have to sit on ONE Position and hide, he cannot move at all becuse a good player with sound will hear it.

nomatter how small the sound it is :)

what i would like is the guy with the axe be able to sneak down the stairs when he hear him looting or think he loots and aproach him from behind instead of just sit in a corner to be a possability.

this wont be possible if you cannot be soundless.

thats also why i said there should be objects if you step on that make sound even if you sneak so you still gotta watch your step.

But yeah we are all diffrent hehe, but i think as i said server option to have two options here would be nice,to please everyone! :)
 

MrMoose

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You and I never seem to see eye to eye, @FuzioN , haha.

I can see where you're coming from if you have a background in CS though. I don't agree with complete silence in STN though.

I think the fundamental problem with sound in a lot of games is that is travels too far. In DayZ you can hear people running around multiple floors above you, and the sound is very sharp and pronounced. I think if the sound signature was smaller and more subtle ie you had to be much closer for footsteps/player sounds to be heard, I think it would work out much better.

For example, sneaking a floor above someone should be possible, but by the time you're in the hallway outside the room they're in, you'd be hardpressed to be 100% silent/incognito. Combine quiet movement sounds with ambient noises (breathing, own footsteps, wind blowing, 'house sounds' possibly generator/car engine ETC) and I think it could really strike a nice balance - great place where player feedback could really fine tune the levels so they're not so loud they're obvious, and quiet enough that you must be somewhat vigilant to pick up on the sounds.
 

FuzioN

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You and I never seem to see eye to eye, @FuzioN , haha.

I can see where you're coming from if you have a background in CS though. I don't agree with complete silence in STN though.

I think the fundamental problem with sound in a lot of games is that is travels too far. In DayZ you can hear people running around multiple floors above you, and the sound is very sharp and pronounced. I think if the sound signature was smaller and more subtle ie you had to be much closer for footsteps/player sounds to be heard, I think it would work out much better.

For example, sneaking a floor above someone should be possible, but by the time you're in the hallway outside the room they're in, you'd be hardpressed to be 100% silent/incognito. Combine quiet movement sounds with ambient noises (breathing, own footsteps, wind blowing, 'house sounds' possibly generator/car engine ETC) and I think it could really strike a nice balance - great place where player feedback could really fine tune the levels so they're not so loud they're obvious, and quiet enough that you must be somewhat vigilant to pick up on the sounds.

ok i see what you mean, you want the normal stepsound to be very low, and sneaking even lower and be abit "confusing" not as clear as in games such as cs and others, well i agree here this could be an option, for instance cs:go compared to cs.16 has more confusing stepping/sound system than the old 1.6 had.

That could work, with as you said many ambient effects around you such as wind, then im up for it, beucse then even a small sneak sound would be hard to filter out even for a good player.

i dont mind this at all actually, i was just afraid you meant no ambient or other sounds around you like most games have you know, if you couldnt sneak then you could hear him so easy hehe.

and yeah im kinda handicapped with sound becuse im ex semi proffesional cs1.6 player when i was around 16-18 29 today time goes fast haha!
 

Davz Not Here

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ok i see what you mean, you want the normal stepsound to be very low, and sneaking even lower and be abit "confusing" not as clear as in games such as cs and others, well i agree here this could be an option, for instance cs:go compared to cs.16 has more confusing stepping/sound system than the old 1.6 had.

That could work, with as you said many ambient effects around you such as wind, then im up for it, beucse then even a small sneak sound would be hard to filter out even for a good player.

i dont mind this at all actually, i was just afraid you meant no ambient or other sounds around you like most games have you know, if you couldnt sneak then you could hear him so easy hehe.

and yeah im kinda handicapped with sound becuse im ex semi proffesional cs1.6 player when i was around 16-18 29 today time goes fast haha!

one great way to diffuse the sound, making it more difficult to pin point it's location would be proper (and some times gratuitous) use of reverberation and echo .....

it's all about the acoustics. the less physical resistance; all the way down to the literal water droplets and other particulates in the air, in the way of the sound wave, the further it will travel. .....

different surfaces have different reflective qualities, foams and cloth dampen sound, metals bounce it back harder, wood tends to make sounds warmer sounding, concrete turns rooms into a giant "tin can" , if you think of that old dive bar that is all concrete and plaster ..... go see a show and stand at the far end of the music.

**DEVS (?)
** if these kinds of acoustic properties were applied it MIGHT require less 'coding' per sa, and instead utilization / integration of some (now-a-days) basic music editing software(s) / plugins, and specifically only the parts that applied to "effects" on the sound wave (.wav or w/e) .....

and then (i am guessing) you would have to code it:

- if sneak, check for wall - (yes, wall)
- if wall check for material - (yes, wall, metal)
- if foot step is 'x' from metal wall go to 'effect' 'y' - (yes, wall, metal, 3 feet, reverb / echo #2)
 
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Davz Not Here

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nolruch71

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What about something like this? A larger vehicle could have a larger boot(trunk), so would that allow you to carry more gear. Although the back is much more open and there is a greater chance if someone spotting you, could that be a drawback to carrying more gear? image.jpg
 

Num47

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What? No. We can't stop here. This is bat country.
I am back in here because of this thread:http://community.survivethenights.n...tripwire-function-animations.5689/#post-65017

I would not mind something simple like a toggle button for jog, walk and slow-walk/creeping which can also be toggled while crouched so you can shuffle or creep when in a low stance...

I know noise made while moving has been discussed but I think @Davz Not Here hit the nail on the head... in most scenarios it's all about your footing, you can move as slow as you like... but stand on something that makes a crack, crunch or a snap will be what gives you away, and if your trying to sneak when wearing gear, rucksack/holdall bag and weapons then you are doomed to begin with :p

You'll most likely be able to creep around more effectively outside in an urban environment/open grass area than a wooded area/brush...

I would like natural/player made noise elements to have an effect... maybe there is a generator that's on near-by, groaning zeds over a wall, maybe they can add broken glass, creaking floorboards when stood on etc to make you think about what path to take instead sneaking in a straight line to your intended target no matter if it's an escape route/kill.

So I think while weight would effect it, it's also down to the environment on how hard it should be and as things move further on this will come naturally.
 

Num47

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What? No. We can't stop here. This is bat country.
Don't really want to post a separate thread...

Hiding/sleeping in back seats (maybe front if there is space) as it's the basic same interaction with vehicles like the OP's idea just in a different part of a vehicle.

Maybe backseats could be used as "safe-log" positions like a sofa/bed and also the trunk if a sleeping bag is placed in it (maybe you'd need to leave the trunk open)... but the only hiccup with this is...

What would happen if the vehicle is destroyed, stolen or moved from the last location you logged out?

Would you just "log" at the position the vehicle was at last, if it was either destroyed/stolen?

And if it's just been moved would you log back in as normal, either laying down/next to the vehicle?
 

Darkstar 影

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Yeah I really hope that prone is an addition, not for Zombie stealth but for me, Pvp, or rather a deterrent of Pvp. When I see someone in a survival game my first though is, Do they see me, can I still hide? And then most of the time I allow the possible threat to pass, which sometimes wont be possible without a prone Option
 

Num47

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What? No. We can't stop here. This is bat country.
Yeah I really hope that prone is an addition, not for Zombie stealth but for me, Pvp, or rather a deterrent of Pvp. When I see someone in a survival game my first though is, Do they see me, can I still hide? And then most of the time I allow the possible threat to pass, which sometimes wont be possible without a prone Option
I'm all for prone ofc but just to make you think for a moment and maybe everyone else...

You're the other dude, and you suddenly see out the corner of your eye a dude go prone in the grass, what do you think?
My guess is, "What's this guy upto?" " I bet he's gonna try and get the drop on me"... Which is probably what we would all honsetly think in that situation.

So I propose we try and think of more ways to get rid of that paranoia of other survivors that dayz created... maybe if it was not there as much, less people will have itchy trigger fingers worrying about others.
:D
 

Lord Goose

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I'm all for prone ofc but just to make you think for a moment and maybe everyone else...

You're the other dude, and you suddenly see out the corner of your eye a dude go prone in the grass, what do you think?
My guess is, "What's this guy upto?" " I bet he's gonna try and get the drop on me"... Which is probably what we would all honsetly think in that situation.

So I propose we try and think of more ways to get rid of that paranoia of other survivors that dayz created... maybe if it was not there as much, less people will have itchy trigger fingers worrying about others.
:D
As much as I agree with what you're saying. What happens if you're being chased by Z's running for ages you turn a corner, you hide under a truck and the zombies pass you.

You could also run from players, go prone, hide in a bush or under something, it works both ways :D
 
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