Zombie hordes forming mini hordes

[DZS]

@Dr. J gave me the idea, once again ty sir you just cant help being a think tank generator lol

Ok so currently zombies don't roam in hordes, here's my idea. Instead of zombies randomly spawning in buildings they spawn as a large group aka horde, as players make noise it draws small groups from the main horde. I reckon hordes of around 20 zombies with groups splitting off variably in the figure of 3-5. Some of these groups meet one another forming larger splinter groups. This is sort of like fuzzy zombie AI, eventually there would be smaller splintered off groups randomly wandering all over the map drawn by noises, not necessarily player created noise.

I believe this would create a greater threat as well as solve the building spawn problem. It should be possible with AI behavioral scripts, get wandering groups to merge up to 3? times to form a much larger group. Its all numbers on a script. Kinda like zombie group a has entered a building it hears another group nearby moves to investigate what that group is moving towards 'zombie logic'.

To detail my idea better ive created some diagrams

 

[gummy8unny]

Interesting, Maybe having like one horde per city kind of patrolling around and occasionally some break off.

 

[Dr. J]

This idea is GREAT @DZS , for many reasons. But the main one for me is if would stop random spawns in buildings players were trying to fortify. Because we're both tech-savvy, I agree with your view it wouldn't be too hard to get the code in place to make this happen.

You mention noise drawing off a small number of zombies from the hoard, like a gun shot, or any noise. Perhaps even a player boarding up windows? Could even fortifying a structure bring zombies closer?

Do you see zombies as herd animals? Is this why they spawn as a hoard, and re-combine in to packs when smaller groups meet up?

But the big question is about the hoard direction. Perhaps your diagrams have confused me. It seems a hoard has a specific destination to head towards when it forms? That might be an interesting plot twist for the game, something to make it more unique. Are zombies drawn towards one location more than another? Do we now have an idea as to what might motivate them?

As to locations for spawns, I'm right with @gummy8unny here, one spawn point in a settlement, but perhaps it moves round inside the settlement radius each time. Could the initial hoard direction of travel also change each time?

 

[DZS]

This idea is GREAT @DZS , for many reasons. But the main one for me is if would stop random spawns in buildings players were trying to fortify. Because we're both tech-savvy, I agree with your view it wouldn't be too hard to get the code in place to make this happen.

You mention noise drawing off a small number of zombies from the hoard, like a gun shot, or any noise. Perhaps even a player boarding up windows? Could even fortifying a structure bring zombies closer?

Do you see zombies as herd animals? Is this why they spawn as a hoard, and re-combine in to packs when smaller groups meet up?

But the big question is about the hoard direction. Perhaps your diagrams have confused me. It seems a hoard has a specific destination to head towards when it forms? That might be an interesting plot twist for the game, something to make it more unique. Are zombies drawn towards one location more than another? Do we now have an idea as to what might motivate them?

As to locations for spawns, I'm right with @gummy8unny here, one spawn point in a settlement, but perhaps it moves round inside the settlement radius each time. Could the initial hoard direction of travel also change each time?

All very interesting questions and points.

I think the agro level would depend on the type of noise, using some sort of machinery like a generator is bound to create much louder noises projecting a much greater agro radius. It depends on how far A2Z want to take it, making zombies drawn towards every single noise whilst realistic might not make for very enjoyable gameplay. Some things that would exist in the real world don't always work well in games.

Yeah pretty much, in zombie lore theirs not much going on upsets only primal instincts that is the constant need to eat. I do consider them to be pack animals. A bit like, one zombie draws others cause the others think there they might be lead to food. Kind of like lemmings in a way only deadly. I do know in some zombie lore there's sometimes the faintest remnant of who they once were, maybe that ties more into why they follow one another. Some extremely deep primitive need to cohabitate in groups.

The diagrams are merely examples to illustrate my idea in a more easy to understand way. It had no particular bearing on any direction for hordes or groups to follow. It is an interesting idea tho. I think its time to start a zombie psychology thread, or if there is an ancient thread buried somewhere its time it was dug up pun intended Discussing underlying reasons as to why zombies might do something could provide many interesting possibility's in terms of AI.

Here's an idea about spawn points, randomly jumping spawn points rather than assigned to a few locations. What im seeing

>Spawns in building >Spawns near barn >Spawns on side of lake >Spawns on beach

Something like that. It jumps around the map.

 

[DZS]

Interesting, Maybe having like one horde per city kind of patrolling around and occasionally some break off.

Was thinking more hordes on random paths their direction altering based on noises. Dont think there's much else that alters a zombies course other than natural and manmade hazards. There's already an agro'ing system in game that draws them to you if very near by if you start making noise like breaking glass windows. It makes sense that multiple zombies in a group would also alter course based on noise. But im sure we can expand on that i'll start a new thread shortly.

 

[Num47]

This doesn't really need my input, I like what I'm reading already.

It sounds far less hassle than the infestation idea.
+100

 

[Dr. J]

I do think this idea has 'legs'. It deals with zombie spawns, and what zombies "want". We've started talking about that in the thread started by @DZS over here: https://community.survivethenights.net/threads/zombie-hordes-forming-mini-hordes.10763/#post-97324
But @Num47, we do need your input.
We need everyone's input.
@gummy8unny makes an interesting point of zombies forming as a hoard and 'patrolling' an area. I think that would work rather well.

 

[gummy8unny]

I do think this idea has 'legs'. It deals with zombie spawns, and what zombies "want". We've started talking about that in the thread started by @DZS over here: https://community.survivethenights.net/threads/zombie-hordes-forming-mini-hordes.10763/#post-97324
But @Num47, we do need your input.
We need everyone's input.
@gummy8unny makes an interesting point of zombies forming as a hoard and 'patrolling' an area. I think that would work rather well.

I had the Idea of hordes as more of a performance thing as you could have 1 master zombie which can "lead" the horde and do all the pathfinding/math/whatever and have the other zombies just "follow" the master zombie that way there isnt like 30 zombies all doing pretty similar calculations. like a Mother duck and her ducklings @JB_

 

[DZS]

I had the Idea of hordes as more of a performance thing as you could have 1 master zombie which can "lead" the horde and do all the pathfinding/math/whatever and have the other zombies just "follow" the master zombie that way there isnt like 30 zombies all doing pretty similar calculations. like a Mother duck and her ducklings @JB_

Good idea. AI can be a killer on cpu performance if its too complex. Its similar in that way to physics.

To detail better what @gummy8unny is saying

(Zombie Horde<Master Zombie<Slave Zombies) It does change the idea a bit of having zombies split off into groups. Unless somehow a slave zombie can turn into a master and follow its own path. The variables are starting to comboble me haha. I do like the challenge. AI's great aint it.

Thinking further, a set number of master zombie hordes each with a single master zombie that controls the hordes direction seems interesting but with no pre-determined path. Because per server you'd have under 10? master hordes that really means less than 10 complexed AI zombies with the rest using simple follow scripts. Would create a fubar in buildings however, which could potentially be quite humorous if someone setup the bomb. Imagine 30 zombies all smashing their way around a tiny house clambering over one another as they literally stumble out of windows. Thats a party! I think horde movement speed would have to be increased vs single zombie walking to balance out the fact zombies would be less spread out. A bit faster than shamble closer to normal walking speed?

 

[Dr. J]

I'm liking the ideas here, from the game optimisation side as alluded to by @DZS and @gummy8unny . It could improve game performance for everyone. I'm sure we've all had momentary lags in the game while it renders in the next bit of landscape, or some zombies. For me, it's not a show stopper. More of a hint that something new is nearby. But for other people, it could be a killer.

It would be interesting to see zombies with a default direction of travel. Patrolling an area for food as a hoard and then splitting off in to smaller groups is great, I'm right behind that concept. But if the hoard/groups were actively searching or drawn towards a location, might that add a little more intrigue to the game? Perhaps they're 'going home' to the secret research facility that created this plague?

I'm not sure zombie speed has to be increased, I like to 'bait' them out of buildings and then just leg it so I can circle round to loot the building when they lose interest in me.

You say "that's a party" @DZS - reminds me of the testing when we were seeing how much firewood we could make. I was inside a house trying to keep the fire lit, everyone else was just chucking firewood in through the windows. I couldn't move for the stuff after a while, but the game coped with it.

 

[DZS]

I'm liking the ideas here, from the game optimisation side as alluded to by @DZS and @gummy8unny . It could improve game performance for everyone. I'm sure we've all had momentary lags in the game while it renders in the next bit of landscape, or some zombies. For me, it's not a show stopper. More of a hint that something new is nearby. But for other people, it could be a killer.

It would be interesting to see zombies with a default direction of travel. Patrolling an area for food as a hoard and then splitting off in to smaller groups is great, I'm right behind that concept. But if the hoard/groups were actively searching or drawn towards a location, might that add a little more intrigue to the game? Perhaps they're 'going home' to the secret research facility that created this plague?

I'm not sure zombie speed has to be increased, I like to 'bait' them out of buildings and then just leg it so I can circle round to loot the building when they lose interest in me.

You say "that's a party" @DZS - reminds me of the testing when we were seeing how much firewood we could make. I was inside a house trying to keep the fire lit, everyone else was just chucking firewood in through the windows. I couldn't move for the stuff after a while, but the game coped with it.

Work smarter not harder. Something i greatly believe in. Make the AI smarter with less workload.

Hmm plot ideas tied into roaming zombies? I likes. Could be a smart player is lead to something secret? You'd have to keep your distance to uncover whatever Mr Zed was leading you too. Could be a horde or just a single zombie that appears on a predetermined path. Great way to undercover easter eggs too. Hordes would be fun, GG if you got a little too close. Could imagine players doing this, purely for the thrill.

Yeah was just an idea about movement speed. Doesn't bother me if the speed stays the same. Sounds like you guys had alot of fun testing way back